This is the transcript of this episode:

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Mark Shriner [0:01]

Welcome to the Grow Fast podcast, where we talk with leading sales, marketing, and personal growth experts about how companies can accelerate sales, optimize marketing, and grow their businesses fast. Let's go. Hey, Fred, how are you?

Fred Diamond [0:16]

Mark, it's great to see you, my friend.

Mark Shriner [0:18]

Likewise. Hey, I really appreciate you taking time to come on the Grow Fast podcast. We are relatively early days here, and to get somebody with your breadth and depth of experience is a great honor. So, thank you so much.

Fred Diamond [0:29]

You're welcome.

Mark Shriner [0:31]

Awesome. Hey, you know, I've always said that if you want to sell something, you have to believe in it. And it really helps if you are actually passionate about the product or service that you're selling.

And I was looking at your body of work, with the Sales Game Changer podcast with over 645 episodes, your book "Insight for Sales Game Changers," and your role as co-founder of the Institute for Excellence in Sales. Plus, you have a podcast about Lyme disease. So, clearly, you're passionate about sales. I want to talk to you about that, and also about your focus on the professional development of women in sales.

So, to kick things off, maybe you can talk about where your passion for sales started and where it comes from?

Fred Diamond [1:38]

Thank you so much. It's great to see you. I look forward to talking about all those topics. I've met with tens of thousands of sales professionals over my career, working at companies like Apple and Compaq Computer, and as a consultant for clients like Microsoft and Oracle.

At the Institute for Excellence in Sales, we work with sales leaders from companies like Amazon Web Services, Hilton, and Oracle. There's one commonality with every successful salesperson: they've sold to someone. If you're not energetic, enthused, or passionate about what you're bringing to the marketplace, then there's no way your customer will be either.

I've looked at all the commonalities of great sales professionals and sales leaders. It's not charisma, but energy and passion. If you're not convinced that what you're bringing to the marketplace will help your customer, then you won't be successful.

I've met salespeople who didn't believe in their product, and you could tell—they weren't successful. The adage "a great salesperson could sell ice to Eskimos" isn't true. Customers only buy what they believe to be valuable.

Mark Shriner [3:26]

Yeah, I mean, I would say that if you can sell something you don't believe in, you're kind of borderline sociopath. But, you know, you've developed a tremendous amount of content related to sales and professional development. So, where does your passion for helping salespeople become better at their jobs come from?

Fred Diamond [3:51]

I've given this a lot of thought over the years. Most of my career has been in professional marketing. One of my first jobs was with McGraw Hill Publishing as an editor, where we sold loose-leaf books that rated technology products. Over the cubicle wall were the salespeople. I would hear how they talked to customers and each other.

I started talking to them and asking questions, genuinely wanting to know what people were doing with the products we created. I realized that sales is the core blood of any company. Sales really is essential; without sales, there's no business.

At Apple, I quickly realized that the salespeople were the stars of the company. We created amazing technologies, but it didn't matter if they weren't getting sold.

Sales is the hardest job in the company. Especially now, in March 2024, customers are in charge. It's hard. The customer now has information before even talking to you. The great salespeople are of service and provide value, understanding what the customer is trying to achieve.

Mark Shriner [6:01]

So what I'm hearing is that, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the product or service is—if you don't sell it, you don't have a business. What prompted you to move into sales, considering it can be a gutsy move from a secure role?

Fred Diamond [6:41]

I was a journalism student and editor of the newspaper in college. My first job as an editor at McGraw Hill involved analyzing technology companies and their products. I started meeting marketing and salespeople from those companies and realized that nothing matters if no one's buying it.

At Apple, I was in marketing and saw that the salespeople were the stars. It didn't matter how great the technology was if it wasn't sold and satisfying customers.

Sales is a profession, and if you're in sales, you need to practice, learn, and try to be great at your skills. It’s a skill that requires continuous improvement and understanding the customer.

Mark Shriner [9:32]

I love and hate that example. I'll come back to that charismatic sale later. The customer doesn't need you, so you have to think about being a partner and helping them achieve their goals. Can you give some additional examples of how to develop trust and bring value in B2B sales?

Fred Diamond [11:56]

Sure, one example is from my podcast with a couple of CIOs. They said, "Help us navigate your company." They didn't want to know just the technology map but how to get things done within your company. It's about being of service to your customer.

Another thing is understanding that most B2B sales are complex, with multiple people involved in the decision. It's not just about charisma or one-call closes. Great salespeople understand the customer's complexity and work through the strategic sale process.

Mark Shriner [15:02]

Many junior salespeople are good at building rapport in the initial meeting but unsure how to ask discovery questions tactfully. Legitimate prospects will answer those questions if asked tactfully.

Fred Diamond [15:43]

Think about why they requested the meeting. They know who you are and want to see if you can help them be successful. Customers want to be successful in their careers and help their organization achieve its goals.

People often want to be more valuable to their organization. Customers might have worked at a company for 30 years because they enjoy the mission. They want to continue their personal growth and help the organization.

Mark Shriner [17:13]

People in B2B environments tend to be risk-averse. You need to earn their trust before selling to them. I listened to your podcast with Rick Herman from Intel, and he mentioned helping customers navigate the organization.

In contrast, the B2C sales approach by well-known YouTubers like Grant Cardone and Jordan Belfort focuses on charismatic persuasion. Can you talk about the differences and the importance of persuasion in B2B?

Fred Diamond [19:04]

One thing I like about people like Grant Cardone and Jordan Belfort is that they give people confidence. Sales is hard, and being successful in sales is even harder. In B2B, you're dealing with complexity and strategy. In B2C, you're often dealing with customers who don't need what you're selling.

The Grant Cardones and Jordan Belforts of the world provide insights into being more confident, but the hardness of sales doesn't go away. It's about having thick skin and persistence, as one woman I interviewed who did door-to-door sales said.

Mark Shriner [23:27]

I've done both B2C and B2B sales. Half of sales is the inside game—dealing with rejection and negative experiences. What does it take to break through those and develop the right mindset?

Fred Diamond [24:05]

It's a skill that sales professionals need. It's not about you; it's always about the customer. I used to struggle with this, but I realized my self-talk was horrible. I kept journals and noticed I was hard on myself, focusing on losses instead of celebrating wins.

I changed my self-talk and focused on what I needed to do to get new customers instead of why I failed. Celebrate the wins and focus on the next steps. Sales is hard, and you will lose more than you win.

Mark Shriner [28:17]

I appreciate you sharing that. Negative self-talk is destructive, and celebrating wins is important. Tim Ferriss talks about the "jar of awesome" to keep track of positive moments. What else can we do to develop mental resilience in sales?

Fred Diamond [29:51]

Sales is a profession. Professionals practice, learn, and strive to be great at their skills. Great salespeople are often in the same industry for decades, continually improving.

You need to be good at communicating, researching, presenting, using social media, and bringing people together. Being a skilled professional means continually developing and practicing these skills.

Mark Shriner [33:57]

What I like about the NFL analogy is that selling at a high level is a team sport. There are many stakeholders on both sides. What are some popular courses at the Institute for Excellence in Sales to teach these skills?

Fred Diamond [35:14]

We focus on professional development, particularly for women in sales. We have programs like the Women in Sales Leadership Forum and the Emerging Women in Sales Leadership Forum. These programs include facilitators who are experienced sales professionals and trainers specializing in empathy, prospecting, and account development.

Before the pandemic, we hosted a program called "Our Big Stage," where we brought renowned sales thought leaders to speak. We're starting to resume these events as hybrid sessions, and we're excited to continue supporting sales professionals.

Mark Shriner [38:10]

I totally agree. Helping customers solve problems is satisfying. Sales is changing, especially with virtual meetings and social media. What are some winning formulas for getting meetings or reaching contacts?

Fred Diamond [39:28]

Getting a meeting is a success. There might be many closes along the way, and each one is a win. Use LinkedIn, personalized communication, and tools like Sly Dial to leave voicemails. It's about being genuine and persistent. Celebrate return emails and continued engagement.

For example, I reconnected with a former customer via LinkedIn, leading to renewed partnership discussions. Reaching out and maintaining relationships is key.

Mark Shriner [44:11]

For salespeople looking to move into management, what skills do they need to develop?

Fred Diamond [45:02]

Moving into management is about making other people successful. Some people thrive on this, while others realize they are better suited as individual contributors.

If you want to become a leader, focus on developing leadership skills and understanding that your success will come from your team's success. Embrace the role and be ready for the challenges and rewards that come with it.

Mark Shriner [46:57]

If there's one or two must-read books for anyone in sales, what would you recommend, in addition to your own book?

Fred Diamond [46:57]

I recommend "The Big Leap" by Gay Hendricks, which talks about getting past your upper limits, and "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl, which discusses the meaning of life and being of service to others.

Sales is about being of service to your customer and helping them achieve their goals. Only a life lived in service to others is a life worth living.

Mark Shriner [50:00]

Thank you. Those are profound insights. Fred, it's been an honor to have you on the Grow Fast podcast. I enjoyed this conversation. I'll include links to your podcast, books, and other resources in the show notes. Thank you so much.

Fred Diamond [50:08]

Thank you and congratulations again on launching the show. You did a great job interviewing me and I hope you continue to do well.

Mark Shriner [50:08]

Cheers. Thanks.

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