This is the transcript for this episode:

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Mark Shriner [0:00]
Welcome to the Grow Fast Podcast, where we talk to leading sales, marketing, and biz dev professionals about how to accelerate sales, optimize marketing, and grow your business fast. Let's go. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Grow Fast Podcast. My name is Mark Shriner, and I'll be your host for this episode of the Grow Fast Podcast. Today, I'm super excited because we're gonna be talking with my colleague and Grow Fests, excuse me, not Grow Faster, MemoQ RFP's Chief Revenue Officer, Alessio Demartis. And we're gonna be talking to Alessio about building rapport in sales situations and how you do that in various different kinds of contexts. But then also, we're going to talk about how to do an effective demo. Before we do that, I want to say hi to Alessio. Alessio, how are you today?

Alessio Demartis [0:44]
Hi, Mark. Hello, everybody. Good, good. In Toronto, it’s raining as I mean, it could be worse, it could be snowing, but it's all good.

Mark Shriner [0:55]
And then you get no sympathy from me because I know you just got back from Aruba.

Alessio Demartis [1:00]
That's why I wanted to start complaining a bit about the weather here.

Mark Shriner [1:06]
When it comes to complaining about the weather, as I just mentioned, this is some nice flowers you have back there. I like that.

Alessio Demartis [1:13]
Thanks. I have a bunch of plants. I normally use a background for my calls, so I never realize where my things are, flowers, or whatever. So thanks for noticing.

Mark Shriner [1:24]
I know, and I don't use it because it makes my... I have pretty thin hair in the background, so whatever, it makes me look like I have even less hair.

Alessio Demartis [1:34]
While it does it with me as well, it just cuts it off.

Mark Shriner [1:40]
So I gotta ask you, I mean, you know, we've been working together at MemoQ before we transitioned to MemoQ RFP for about three years now. And I've seen you in sales situations at events, one-to-ones, and on calls. And I think that you're maybe one of the most effective people that I've worked with in terms of developing rapport. I mean, one, you speak multiple languages, but I also think that you kind of have a sense in terms of how you can start to develop rapport. Let me ask you, first off, let's define what rapport is. In your mind, what does it mean to develop rapport with somebody?

Alessio Demartis [2:19]
Establishing a connection, for sure. Then we can frame it in a more business-related way. So establishing a connection to close a sale or to achieve a specific objective. But in general, for me, it means establishing a connection.

Mark Shriner [2:39]
Okay, and can you give me an example of a connection?

Alessio Demartis [2:44]
That's what we try always to do in sales, right? Well, we spoke about, I don't know, getting somebody's trust or just finding something in common with that person. When we think about a process, it can be, I don't know, a call. We always start with small conversation, right? Complaining about the weather, for example. So that kind of sets the stage for sharing some common things or maybe even by contrast. Oh, you're in California, I’m in Toronto, I don't know, we're creating a stage for a conversation. It means to start establishing a connection.

Mark Shriner [3:31]
Some kind of commonality, for example.

Alessio Demartis [3:34]
Or someone’s attitudes. There are a lot of ways to do it. I would say that starting off with something in common is probably the easiest way. Often, when we are working on LinkedIn or even at events, one of the main things that we try to do is to get introduced by somebody, or maybe we went to the same university, we live in the same country. So all of those things kind of create a very first connection, and then you can build upon it.

Mark Shriner [4:08]
Yeah, you know, you mentioned LinkedIn. And that's one thing that I usually do before I meet with anybody for the first time is I'll go through their LinkedIn profile. And oftentimes, we'll find either common connections, or oh, this person lived in Japan when I was in Japan, or they lived in another country, or they've done some activity. A lot of times people will post their hobbies or other kinds of business-related interests. Maybe they took a similar course. And if I just find that one thing I can bring up, I’ll say, “Hey, you know what, I was stalking you on LinkedIn. And I happen to notice,” and then immediately it raises them with this kind of like a friendly conversation.

Alessio Demartis [4:42]
Yeah, to me, that's kind of like the groundwork to build rapport. It's also something that, you know, depends on the scenario we're in. If we are on a video call or just a call, then we have to pay attention to that. We can talk about our hobbies, how we like, I don't know, running horses or whatever. But then there's another layer, which is appreciating and valuing the other person's time and our own because, you know, we are working with a schedule. So it's different in different scenarios, how deep you can talk about a specific subject or for how long so that you can keep everything balanced and actually get to the point where you want to get.

Mark Shriner [5:32]
No, that's interesting because I just listened to Jordan Belfort, aka The Wolf of Wall Street, his book called “The Way of the Wolf.” And he talks about building rapport in terms of, “Hey, you want to establish trust, and you want them to see some type of commonality with you. But you don't want to overdo it.” And he gave an example of a guy that he found out his prospect was a duck hunter, and he went on this like tirade rant for about a half hour. He's like, “Dude, you got to get down to business now. We get it. Now, you got, you shared that, now get on to business.” So let me ask you, what are some challenging situations for developing rapport? Because some people, like you go in, and they've got the poker face, and they don't want to talk, right? They just want to get down to business. So what do you do?

Alessio Demartis [6:22]
The thing is that when we think about, sometimes we kind of, you know, box ourselves. Oh, we say salespeople, or we have to think that, we always say that business is made by people to people, and people are extremely different. And one thing that we have to keep in mind is that if we actually notice and think about it, and are aware of it, we also slightly change our behavior, not on purpose, but it just happens depending on the person we are talking to. So if we are aware of this change, then we can also, I don't say use it, but just apply it in different situations. If the person is really shy, then of course, we cannot go there, you know, very energetically because the person is going to withdraw even more. We have to apply different, nobody says, like vibe matching. There's a lot of talks when I follow, you know, some courses or videos about sales. And sometimes for me, it's like, it sounds very structured, like you have to follow the script or doing these things so you can get the other person's attention. I don't know. For me, it just sounds...

Mark Shriner [7:43]
A little bit kind of a little bit contrived or superficial, right? I mean, yes.

Alessio Demartis [7:48]
Exactly. It's like, I touch my ear, you touch your ear, you know, I look over there, you look over there. It's like, whoa, what are you doing?

Mark Shriner [7:58]
That's, well, that's one of the main things you find in sales courses, right? Like mirroring and matching. It's very dangerous. Because if you cannot read the room, or you develop that sense of reading the room, then you can end up doing exactly that. Then it becomes creepy, and you're not getting where you want.

Alessio Demartis [8:18]
Exactly. Back to Jordan’s book, that's the one thing that I was kind of perplexed with, with his book is he gives a lot of amazing advice in terms of interpersonal communications. But at some point, it gets a little creepy because like, at what point are you willing to manipulate versus just like, for me, sincerity works, right? I sincerely want to, like kind of connect with whoever I'm with. And maybe, you know, you could say that sounds kind of hokey, but it's true. I want to just talk to people and be honest and open. That works for me. I don't know.

Mark Shriner [8:55]
Yeah, you know, so I'm glad we're aligned on that. And I can't argue with Jordan, because, you know, he was making millions and millions of dollars when he was in his 20s. And he taught literally hundreds of salespeople in his organization, and then post that organization to be incredibly successful salespeople. I also think that he sells primarily B2C where he's trying to sell an individual or a family on an investment idea, for example, that's how he got his start. And I think there's a different dynamic in terms of where we operate. We're, you know, we're working in a B2B environment. And typically, there's multiple stakeholders. So you can't just go in and close the deal on one call, because you're like, Whoa, I did. I follow the formula, and I got it. But again, so back to rapport, it's important because you know, you have some commonality, and it starts to establish some trust. Why don't you contrast like building rapport on a, because when I started doing sales up until about pre-pandemic, everything was in person, right? That was, it was so much easier for me, you've got a handshake in Japan, you do a bow, and then you get invited into their office, and they give you a cup of coffee, and you say, Oh, this is really nice coffee, and then you, oh, you're a golfer? Or you know what I mean? It's so much easier for me in person. So why don't we look at in person, video, and then at events where you're at events, events are kind of crazy, because people are coming up to your booth or your meeting at lunch, alcohol is involved sometimes. So why don't you talk about those three different scenarios and some strategies or advice that you can offer?

Alessio Demartis [12:31]
So probably the one we do the most right now is video calls. So I would say, being friendly and genuine to start with opens up the conversation. If there has been an exchange of emails, use them to review them and build on previous connections. So you can actually move on the conversation. At an event, you have a lot of information that you can use nonverbally, to open up, oh, look, you have a lapel pin, or you have something else that helps open up the conversation. When you are on a cam, it doesn't really work. Now you can see my background. So you can tell me something about the flowers. But sometimes you only see a wall and a face. So you have to find another way to open up the conversation. And also to be different, I find to take turns in the conversation, like you have to be a bit more aware of how much you're speaking and how much the other person is speaking so that it's a bit more balanced. When you're at an event, it's a bit different. Normally, you are in bigger groups. So there's a different dynamic happening. But in a video call, I think you have to be a bit more aware of how everything is moving.

Mark Shriner [13:55]
Yeah, it's interesting at events, and you've probably noticed this with me, I go into this mode of just like trying to connect people with other people. And I don't know why. But it's just like I don't want to sell to you. I just want to show you that I can help you and we can like be friends. And by the way, you're telling me this, I know this person over there, it's looking to do something similar to you. Let me connect you. And then I'll follow up with you afterward or something like that. That's my way of, I guess, building rapport.

Alessio Demartis [14:24]
But I was just saying ultimately, when we think at events, as you mentioned at the beginning, there's events and then there's maybe networking events and happy hour events and these types of things. So if we're thinking more about a conference, then also a bit of preparation and finding the time to connect can also help with doing that. But in a way, for example, if you're having a drink with somebody after the conference, you might want to keep it, as you say, a bit less business-focused and more talking about personal experiences. You might want to add that person on LinkedIn right away because maybe you will forget about the name the day after.

Mark Shriner [15:06]
Why would you forget?

Alessio Demartis [15:08]
I'm just talking about, you know, general examples that can happen. General. So it'd be different during the conference. I mean, you can be a bit more when I want to say, business-focused, I don't mean selling. But you know, it can be just adding value to a conversation where you're at, or just, you know, remembering the person's name. And then the next time you say, Oh, Hi, Mark, that's it. I'm not selling you anything. But I'm building the connection because everybody likes to be recognized. I like people who, very rarely, can pronounce my name. I don't care. But you know, for me to dis, I think that's different. Like, Oh, you pronounced it well. So creating that type of, you know, I still call the connection is like the bricks, then it helps you to actually, on the third day, maybe approach that person to talk about something that's a bit more sales-related.

Mark Shriner [16:02]
Yeah, I mean, sometimes people will come up to the booth, and they're asking very specific questions. And then it's a business conversation right away. At the same time, while you're doing that, you're also trying to build rapport and things like that. But oftentimes, you're just meeting people, like you said, in a small group situation, or it's a networking time, and you don't want to just go and say, Hey, here's my brochure. Please buy now.

Alessio Demartis [16:26]
It's also true, though, that at events, people kind of expect people to go and introduce themselves. So we can keep it in mind. Because I think that's a blocker for some people, maybe not salespeople, but you know, at an event, people expect you to go introduce yourself. So you can just do it. It won't be weird. What could be weird is learning how to activate a conversation elegantly. But that's another topic.

Mark Shriner [16:55]
Well, no, I mean, it's actually an interesting topic. And maybe that's why I always say, Hey, let me introduce you to so...

Alessio Demartis [17:02]
That's a really good way, like bringing in another person into the conversation, actually helps you to give you a way out because I mean, we have to accept that at events, not all conversations are interesting.

Mark Shriner [17:18]
Let's be really precise. So I mean, I don't know about you, but for me, there's this thing that goes on in my mind that, okay, I've talked to this person for this amount of time, but there are 400 other people out there.

Alessio Demartis [17:44]
Exactly. So, and I feel bad about it, but like, cuz you're like, Ah, I need to meet everybody. So how do you deal with that? It's the same thing as I mentioned at the beginning with the discovery call is a bit of awareness or with a demo, being aware of time. So sometimes, this is actually science, I like to read, that's a written kind of my personality, I come to like to see scientific evidence of things. And if you look at science behind discussions, normally there's like a starting point, then it gets to the peak. And then of course, it starts to go down when people start to say, Yeah, well, I'll just have to repeat something. So that's the clue. I mean, experts in conversations that will tell you to leave at the peak of the conversation. I don't know, I don't like it, it sounds like the most interesting part of the conversation. But maybe when you start to notice that the conversation is kind of going down. You can, you know, find a way to exit it. Also being honest and be like, Hey, I haven't spoken with that group over there. So I'm gonna go around, it's a good...

Mark Shriner [18:50]
Or how about we go over and talk to them? You could do that too. Let me ask you because I think I know that you speak English, French, Italian, and Spanish. Is that right? Then?

Alessio Demartis [19:04]
I did Portuguese recently. Like works but...

Mark Shriner [19:08]
You could just, you know, your European brain, you just put in another... added Portuguese. So let me ask you, in terms of building rapport, have there been any big noticeable differences between those different cultures and languages?

Alessio Demartis [19:35]
There are. For me, it kind of goes back to being aware of things, how the person is and how you hold the conversation. In the US, for example, people are more accustomed to being, I don't know, exposed to a sales talk. So you can get down to business, I would say faster than with other people. And with people in general, in Latin America, in Argentina, they are much more personal in terms of relationship. So sometimes it can also sound a bit rude like I came here to sell you this, you want to get to know the other person, and from there, then they know when we did, maybe they booked the call, but if you still start with your pitch, something breaks in the communication. And also some people in some countries that are still fine with speaking English, if you propose to speak in their own language, they might get offended. Because they think, Oh, you're already saying that I cannot speak English, like I can speak English too.

Mark Shriner [20:53]
It's funny because, you know, I'm in Croatia right now. Right? And so, I studied, I didn't add Croatian, I just studied just simple things. And it's funny because there are different reactions. Sometimes when I use Croatian, they're like, and I think it's mostly the older generation, they are appreciative of the fact that I'm making, like, I can say, Excuse me, or Do you know where this is? And they're like, oh, but they're just, they're using Croatian back to me just to kind of, and their problem. But then, like, the younger generation, they're like, Dude, my English is way better. I'm like, sorry. Like, to thank you say, hvala. And I'm not sure if I should say thank you or hvala. And if I say hvala, they're like, yeah, thank you. You're welcome. So, before we get on to the demo subject, let me ask you, you sit on calls where people are selling to you, right? And one of the things that I've noticed in the US is, there's like a formula now. You say you book a call, and they, you say like, I want to have a demo of your product. And when I say I want to bid demo, guess what I want? A demo. 20 minutes of the half-hour call are like asking qualifying questions while they find you. Yes, not building rapport, making me feel very, very much like I'm just something that's gonna go into their CRM system. And then they'll get a little bit into the demo. And to me, that's really annoying because like, when I book a demo, what do I want? So, I don't know. And I'm okay with a little rapport building like, Hey, Mark, hey, yeah, you're from Seattle, I heard the Huskies did this, or whatever. What are your thoughts on that?

Alessio Demartis [22:49]
I personally don't like them. And when I do like something, it's really hard for me to actually do it myself. So being clear on the purpose of the call is one of the main things that make everybody more comfortable, and you want your prospects to be comfortable because then you know, guess what they will get out of the process in any way. Ghosting you or, you know, maybe vibing more with another sales representative from the competition, anything can happen because maybe at the same moment, they're having four or five, six calls with other companies. So you want to be aware of that. Personally, I like to take the qualification into a separate call. First thing, because it's not only qualification calls, you are talking to me about your issues, your problems, how I can help you. And in the meanwhile, I'll qualify you in a conversation that's so important for me, like I've been upset, set in, in conversations where the salesperson was literally reading a questionnaire. And for me, it was painful to stay there and watch it happen. Because that's not the way I would do it. And as you say, being on the other end, you feel like, okay, they're just, you know, filling my dose here to put me into the CRM and see what happens. I personally like it to take it separately, or if I have to do it in the same call because maybe that's the method that's been used at the company. I will still say, Hey, do you mind if I just ask you a few quick questions just to get your profile? So then we can start with the demo. But I would avoid putting things together. Demos for me are about problem we will get to it in a minute. It's about giving or telling the person okay, this is your time. This is one hour of my time. This is what you told me. That's the issue you're trying to solve. I'm going to show you what we can do for you. So if I take that time, because when you're qualifying somebody with questions, it's something for you not for the client. And the client is not there to give you anything, the client is there because they want something. So if you go if you make it yours, then that breaks the type of connection.

Mark Shriner [25:03]
I totally agree with you. And I also liked the approach of saying, Hey, I want to give you the best demo ever. But before we do that, can we just have a planning call to talk about what you want to get out of this demo? And most people would agree, especially if they're inviting other colleagues to the demo because they want to look smart, right? They want that demo to look good. And you tell me, okay, so who else is gonna be on the call? What are they going to want to see? What do you want to see? You know? And give me everything you know, and sometimes, because we're dealing with software, it could be sending me the files in advance, and I'll show you how we deal with the types of files and things like that. So now, let's get into the demo. Okay. We're calling in and it because the rapport-building process continues, even through the demo, and you don't want to do a mechanical demo, in my opinion, sorry. But like, a mechanical demo, you could just show them a video, right? Like, here's the video of the demo, right? You want to make it interactive. But it's hard because you're actually doing the demo. So for you, when you kick off a demo, how do you kick it off for success? Just walk us through the process.

Alessio Demartis [26:13]
At the very beginning, I would try to build on the connection that I mentioned during the discovery call phase. So anything that's been mentioned, you can bring it up again, build on that interaction, you can mention names, if you spoke with a group, if there are new people, and sometimes it happens from the discovery call to the demo, then you can introduce yourself to the new people speak with them. So you start from there. So you start showing that you know you have a connection, you know something about the company. So for me, it's very important to set the stage. We talked about some pain points during the discovery call. So I'm starting the demo, saying we are showing you the program, the software, the solution to solve these issues. Is it what you're looking for? If we haven't spoken about use cases, for example, in a discovery call, then, you know, that's the moment they can tell you Oh, but actually, there's also this and that we want to see. It's important for me to keep an idea, not a script again, but an idea of how to start, how to develop and how to end. Because if we are not able to just keep that idea of a structure, then it can happen that we end the call without a strong closing or without action items. So we have to be aware of that. As for not making it mechanical, I think that this helps already. You mentioned, for example, asking them for files. So if they see files they are using every day, first thing they connect better to the solution. But they also think, you know, sometimes we're not, Oh, at least I'm Italian, I'm a bit suspicious about when people are trying to sell me things. So when they come to me with a file, oh, look, this is beautiful. Look how it works. I think, well, you prepared that file to make it look that good, right? But if I'm using your files and I'm showing you, you know that the solution works, regardless of what I can prepare for the demo. So that's an important thing. And another thing that I think it kind of depends on what you're selling, but I think it's really effective. Always in terms of creating an emotional connection is also having that person participate in the demo, like having a collaborative demo, like oh, look, this is really easy. You can take command of the call, again, I will give you the mouse, go here, go there, you say that's done. So you're already bringing in that person. And they can see that it's easy, you're guiding them, but the feeling they get out of it is much stronger than, you know, sitting at a lesson as we all did in school.

Mark Shriner [28:57]
No, but that's awesome. And I've never actually seen that where you pass the control to somebody else. I think that's super powerful. Because, you know, I think our brains are wired in that we can focus on one thing used to be for like 10 minutes, but now it's probably like two minutes because of these things and whatever. Yeah. And so you kind of have to kind of change things up and make things interactive all the time and like ask questions and like, okay, and so I mean, you make your demos interactive, but what are some other ways that you make them interactive?

Alessio Demartis [29:37]
There was a thing that I read, I think it was in an article on Forbes, that I remember because of the name. They call it the James Bond technique. I was like, wow, with that name, I want to use it. And they were saying that basically, in James Bond movies, you know that you sit in the theater, and action will start immediately. Like you don't have to wait for the story to build. So in a way, it's something that I've used depending on I mean, there's not a cookie-cutter solution, right. But it's something that I've used in my demos, if they told you, oh, I want to solve this, this is our main issue, you might want to just go in, bam, this is the solution, look at that. Maybe there is a senior executive and we all know that different stakeholders have different needs. So if we think, for example, about selling a TMS or translation management system, that we might have translators in the call, they are looking into their day-to-day job. So maybe I can look for this word, and it's much quicker. But then we have project managers that are looking more in terms of productivity, who maybe can slice this big file and just automate sending it to the translators. But then we have senior executives as well. Maybe they're looking more at key metrics, or how much money they can save using translation memories. Keeping this in mind and kind of specifying, I think it's specifying the value, like you show the features. But that doesn't mean that it translates into value for the people attending the meeting. So you want to specify the value. When you say, Oh, this is a feature, you see, in one second, you have all the glossaries or the terms that you want, then you're connecting with your translators up in this case, so you're bringing them out of the low of the demo, because it's like, oh, yeah, that's interesting. But then you also don't want to lose the senior executive. So you, I think, mentioning very clearly things that are of interest for different profiles of people attending the meeting, makes it interactive automatically, because you're reeling them in every time and you don't lose them. Because that's really what we are scared of here, right, losing the person's attention, while we are trying to show them that we can help them with something.

Mark Shriner [31:59]
Totally agree. And I think the point of bringing up the benefit versus the feature is super important. Because sometimes you say like, Hey, we've got this alignment tool, and they're like, Yeah, but it can save you 50% of the time, and cut your cost. Oh, okay, now I get it. Right, you know, so quantifying the benefit is super, super important. I also think that asking questions during the demo can be challenging, because especially if you're doing the demo by yourself, ideally, you have a solution engineer or architect on the call with you. And they can ask or answer the technical questions. But you know, sometimes you do the demo by yourself and you want it to be interactive, and you're focused on the mechanics of the demo itself. But asking questions to the different stakeholders is pretty important as well, would you agree?

Alessio Demartis [32:58]
Absolutely. And actually, one thing that I keep in mind, or simply I notice when I'm not leading the demo, is the silence.

Mark Shriner [33:14]
Okay, so there are people that when they're selling, they will just stop talking and wait. And that's a different application of silence, and I'm okay with that. But when you're doing a demo, I want the people to ask questions, I was like, Oh, what about this, can you talk a little bit about...

Alessio Demartis [33:32]
It feels like a dead moment, really. So if you want to, again, keep that connection, you cannot put that moment there. Even if the software is loading, just come up with something, keep the connection, the conversation open. Something I do, for example, is explaining why we are clicking on something, instead of just, oh, let's click here and wait. Like no, clicking here because it's gonna open this window. And from there, we can do this, this, and this. Now, I'll show you in a moment. I might, I don't know, have also the defect ability of feeling silence very quickly. But that's probably why I don't like it back. But I don't think it's useful, particularly when you're having this type of setting in which you are presenting something, you want to make it useful. You want to make it simple. So you don't want to fill it with a lot of big words or features, because you get people lost. So I tend to keep it simple. I mention other features, like oh, we can do much more with this, but we will get into a training stage and implementation stage then we will have the time to actually go through it together. But what I'm focusing on is what you want to see and the problems you want to see solved.

Mark Shriner [34:54]
Again, totally agree. And it's funny because I've walked into meetings before where people had their laptops open, and I was going to do a presentation. And I'm like, I'm not going to compete with what is ever on their screen, right? So I would just say, hey, you know, I'm only going to take 10 minutes of your time here. Could I ask that you close your screens? Please? And let's just have a real interactive conversation here. And they did it. And they probably hated it. But the point is, is like that silence when you're there, in what we're doing virtually like this. If there's, you don't know what, you know, what are they? Are they engaged or not? So this question is, close...

Alessio Demartis [35:38]
The laptop for sure. Yeah.

Mark Shriner [35:42]
So what, you know, let me ask you to tell me like, Do you have a memorable, memorable, memorable Is that even a memorable occasion for when you thought you couldn't build rapport with somebody, and you actually were able to, and also a demo that went incredibly well just just give me a couple of success stories here.

Alessio Demartis [36:07]
I don't tend to connect naturally with, I don't know how to put it, like, old style, C-level executive, management people. Not all of them are, I'm talking about, you know, that old style of I'm here, I'll make the decision. And it's not something that I like. But it has, of course, happened to have those people on the call. And they tend to want to take control, of course, of the whole conversation. They stop you, they tell you, hey, now I want this, this, this, and this. And, of course, I mean, everybody gets it, because either you get into a fight, or you have to live in the space, and you don't want to get into the fight. But you do want control. I agree, control can be shared depending on whom you're talking to. But you do need that control. So something that for me, it's been really important in these terms is to position myself as an expert. This is something that you build throughout your life or your knowledge of working in a company. Knowing the product, for example, it's so important for me. There are different schools, like in sales, sometimes it's like, oh, I just need to know the main features and just enough to make the sale. For me, it's not like that, just because of how I am. First thing, I go into calls with much more confidence. If I know the product, I know that I can answer questions, if they are tricky. Or if I know that I can tell them, Oh, I'll ask and I know who to ask. Because if I know the product. For me, it's really important. But also, it shows, I mean, we've been taught since we were children, right, that you listen to the experts in schools or anywhere else. So we are wired to do that. So if I'm talking to you, and I'm showing you another product or another market, I know that I can help you, I'm pretty sure that you will also sit down and listen, instead of feeling like you have to interrupt me to correct the direction of what I'm doing. And then again, people are people, you don't always have a win, because maybe they just want to win. But letting them win could be still the best option because they don't interrupt the process. So it depends.

Mark Shriner [38:36]
No, I agree that a lot of times there's way too much ego involved. You know, it's funny, but you talk about your knowledge and how important that is. Back to Jordan Belfort's book, he talks about, you know, if you're going to get business, you need to do a couple of different things. And I'm not gonna go through the whole list. But one of the things he says is you have to be sharp as a tack, that's a direct quote from him. And you need to be a subject matter expert, and super enthusiastic about what you're selling. And, you know, I think that's super important because you're taking up people's time. And so you need to demonstrate that, you know, one you can build rapport, hey, we're all friends and that but you also need to bring some value to the table in terms of your knowledge.

Alessio Demartis [39:23]
I think that like really consultative selling now, it's the selling process, at least when you think about software. Software is getting more and more complicated. Processes are getting increasingly complicated. So you cannot just come in and say, Hey, you got X problem, I got Y solution. That's it. Like that added value. I think now it's like intrinsic to it. Like there has to be a value, like you have to give that consultation side to the prospect so that everything comes together. So that's why I say it has to be part of what you're bringing to the table. Because if you're not an expert, how are you going to help them as a consultant to get understanding, get to purchasing the solution?

Mark Shriner [40:12]
Absolutely. Well, Alessio, let me ask you this kind of final couple of questions here. You know, you didn't start off as a salesperson, I think you started off originally as a translator, right?

Alessio Demartis [40:24]
Yes and no. Meaning, I got my degrees and master's in translation interpreting. I started as a freelancer. But then after two years, I kind of wanted to create my own project. So I started to be interested in entrepreneurship. And I went to a startup accelerator in Madrid. And then at a certain point, I always thought, Oh, my God, I don't do sales, I don't want to sell. But that's because of how people were selling to me. And I remember very clearly the moment like that aha moment in which I was like, Wait a second. I've always sold my whole life. Like I've always worked throughout my status. I worked in retail, I sold pizzas, I sold clothes, perfumes. The end, even when I was a freelance translator, I was selling my services. When I set up my business, I was selling my company's business. So I've been selling throughout my whole life. And I think also, that's what kind of fine-tuned the way I sell adapting to different scenarios or to different people. It's because I've seen them, and I've seen them in different settings. So when I had that moment, I was like, oh, okay, then it's not bad. I've been doing it till now.

Mark Shriner [41:46]
Well, so let me ask you, if there are other aspiring salespeople out there, or salespeople who want to up their game, what's the 1, 2, 3 pieces of advice that you'd give to people?

Alessio Demartis [41:57]
We probably start from being genuine. Being genuine and authentic doesn't mean being blunt, or overly honest. It's all about, I always say there's, it's all about balance, you have to understand, learn how to read the room. So either you're a person that has, I don't know, natural empathy. So you notice those things, either you're a bit more, I don't know, mechanical in a way, if I can say that. So maybe you need to prepare, at least with a few things. So when you start a call, you can say, Oh, let me notice these things. And it helps you kind of gather information to start the call. It will always be related to the profile that you have and which type of person you are. I don't like scripted things. Because if you're a person that is an extrovert, then maybe you can follow that script. But it doesn't sound like a script. But if you're not the type of person, it will sound like a script. So you have to find a way to make it work for you, maybe watching other people selling. I did this when I was in the UK studying English. I used to have, believe it or not, a British accent. And I think that they taught us in pronunciation class that you had to choose the person that you liked the pronunciation of and mimic him or her. So that was what I did. And I think that with sales, if you are starting, and you're not sure of how you come through, having two or three people that you like the way they talk, you can try to try different pieces or different techniques. But then it comes down to making it your own. That's where the authenticity comes from, right? It's your way of speaking to people, it's your way of building rapport, it's your way of selling. So it does need a bit of time to build it. But once you find it, I would say that it will work, people won't perceive you as Oh, he's just trying to sell me something.

Mark Shriner [44:04]
No, I really like that. And I like the fact that you start with that authenticity. Because I really, I mean, we're just trying to help companies and individuals solve problems. I mean, we're not going to sell ice to Eskimos, I mean, you know, our job really is to find customers or prospects who are looking for a solution that we can help them with. And I like that. I also like the fact that you talk about finding your own style, because you know, I'm going to sell differently than you and you're going to sell differently. There's probably some very similar principles that underlie all that. But at the end of the day, I think we have to be ourselves and we can't be too scripted. Alessio, man, I have really enjoyed working with you over the last couple of years at MemoQ. And I'm so excited that you came on board as our Chief Revenue Officer at RFP. We are just literally weeks away from launching our MVP, we've got, I think, 15 different beta customers signed up. It's a pretty exciting time. And, you know, it's kind of funny because we're here doing this podcast so that we can kind of share knowledge about how to improve sales and marketing in organizations, how companies can grow fast. The MemoQ RFP platform can be part of that. Or we're also, you know, just being very open and honest, in terms of how we, you know, sell so that any of our customers who are watching, they'll know what to expect. And exactly, my takeaway is this, we're not going to waste your time. We're basically nice people that are just trying to figure out can we help you or not, right? I mean, does that sound right?

Alessio Demartis [45:44]
That's it. If there's no need for the sale to happen, the sale won't happen, but maybe it will happen in the future. And if it happens in the future, it's only because you didn't push it the first time. It's just about understanding what you need. And if you don't need it, but you know, the sales process was honest, and it was helpful, maybe you know people that will need it. And of course, you will, you're gonna say, Hey, I've worked with these guys, you know, you might want to give it a chance. So we are those guys, I guess.

Mark Shriner [46:16]
Awesome. Thank you so much, Alessio. I am not going to do a Jordan Belfort and say, Sell me this pen. But the next time on the Grow Fast Podcast, I will say sell me a pizza.

Alessio Demartis [46:31]
Okay, I think I can do that.

Mark Shriner [46:35]
If you can sell with pineapples. Anyway...

Alessio Demartis [46:39]
That's another level.

Mark Shriner [46:41]
Thanks a lot. Take care.

Alessio Demartis [46:43]
Thank you very much, Mark. Bye-bye.

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