This episode of the Grow Fast Podcast featuring Mor Assouline, Founder of Demo to Close and a Sales Trainer and Coach for SMB AEs and SaaS companies, primarily focused on the transformative power of effective sales training and coaching. Mor shared insights into his unique approach, emphasizing the importance of "unselling," where sales professionals create healthy friction by questioning prospects’ needs, fostering trust and stronger buyer engagement. He explained how SaaS sales, unlike traditional B2B sales, require a customer-centric approach to reduce churn and ensure long-term value. The discussion also highlighted the value of processes like CRM audits, talk track libraries, and tailored onboarding programs to build efficient and resilient sales teams.

Another key topic was the importance of building a personal brand and leveraging content to establish credibility in competitive markets. Mor advocated for strategies like engaging with prospects on LinkedIn to build familiarity before cold outreach and creating value through podcasts or other branded content. He also stressed the importance of mental resilience and self-reflection for sales professionals, recommending practices like journaling, visualization, and gratitude to maintain focus and motivation. Mor’s insights reinforced the need for adaptability and personal growth as cornerstones of long-term success in sales.

You can find the whole episode of the Grow Fast Podcast with Mor Assouline here:

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This is the transcript for this episode:

Mark Shriner [00:00]

Music. Welcome to The Grow Fast Podcast where we talk with leading sales, marketing and personal growth experts about how companies can accelerate sales, optimize marketing, and grow their businesses fast. Let's go.  

Mark Shriner [00:15]

Hi Mor, how are you?

Mor Assouline [00:16]

I'm good. I'm good. How are you?  

Mark Shriner [00:18]

Pretty good. Hey, I'm up in the Pacific Northwest, and it's, we're just, you know, getting into the rainy, dark, dreary time of season. And I looked at your LinkedIn profile, and are you really down in, like, Miami or Fort Lauderdale area?  

Mor Assouline [00:32]

Yeah, I'm in a city called Aventura, so it's North of, I say Miami, because nobody really knows what Aventura is, but it's north of Miami, south of Fort Lauderdale, really.  

Mark Shriner [00:42]

So, what's the temperature today?  

Mor Assouline [00:46]

I don't know, but the humidity has dropped, so it's actually bearable to be out. It's nice to be outside, and the weather has changed as of last week, yeah, and so it's going to maybe winter is not winter. It's just really nice. You can go to the pool, still go to the beach.

Mark Shriner [01:06]

How far from the beach?

Mor Assouline [01:09]

Five-minute drive.

Mark Shriner [01:11]

Ah man! All right, so next time, I'll come down there and do a podcast, alright?

Mor Assouline [01:17]

Yeah, I grew up across the street from the beach, which is nice

Mark Shriner [01:22]

That’s awesome man. Hey, it's funny, because my last episode, or two episodes ago, I talked to Scott Leese, who is the surfing sales coach guy, and he's a big surfer and stuff like that. But hey, you know, I really looking forward to this, because, you know, I know that you're the founder of Demo to Close, and you're also, you know, working with many different organizations, and I don't know, really understand if it's as a fractional CRO or if you're just in coaching them, but you are working with many different organizations, which means you have a ton of experience, you know, across probably several different verticals. Maybe you can, just before I dig into the questions, give a quick overview of what Demo to Close is. And then, you know, explain how you're working with so many different organizations. And then I'm going to start with the with the questions, is that all right?

Mor Assouline [02:18]

Yeah, it's cool. Yeah. So, Demo to Close is sales, training and enablement company. So, it depends. I have like, two parts of the business, like B2C, B2B, a B2B client would be a typical SaaS software company that would come through. I focus specifically with, like, account executives, and they'll bring me in. Scope of work is really custom, but to do training, onboarding, ramping up for the sales team coaching, sales coaching, enablement, and then for individual contributors, like account executives, they joined my university Demo to Close University, and that is a coaching program I teach specifically focused on SMB sellers for the university, I teach them how to ramp up fast, become number one rep in their company, and then get promoted, and that's through we have coaching, we have community, we have training. So, it's a training, sales training, coaching and enablement company. I'm not a CRO or fractional store, and I've never been a CRO, so, yeah, I've been a VP of Sales for early-stage startups, but and I've been an account executive so well.

Mark Shriner [03:26]

I know that you contribute according to, you know, your LinkedIn profile across the 3p process, playbooks and people. And I want to jump into that. But before you mentioned that for on the B2B side, that you focus on SaaS? Is there a particular reason?

Mor Assouline [03:44]

Yeah, it's just, it's where a good chunk, I would say, majority of my sales career has been in tech and SaaS, and it just felt like a great place to stick to a niche. Eventually I'll probably branch out of it, but it's something that I know very well. Like one of my clients, a company called Door Loop. They are a property management software company. They raised Series A of 20 million, and they recently just raised Series B of 100 million from JMI equity. And so like, yeah, SaaS is what I know. Again, I think SaaS is actually ahead of its time in terms of sales, training and coaching and like the methodologies. And I think there's a space for B2B, for a lot of, like antiquated B2B companies that they would get, like injecting SaaS sales, like methods and approaches would be like, would revitalize the business.

Mark Shriner [04:41]

Can you give a specific example of something that's, yeah, inherently, SaaS sales versus, you know, traditional or typical B2B sales?

Mor Assouline [04:50]

So, SaaS is, like, either per month or per year, unless you're in AI now, it's you pay based on usage, yeah? Yeah. So, because the model is monthly or yearly, that leaves that creates a huge risk to turn out the customer if they don't get the right support, if they're oversold. So, you have to do a very good job of making sure that on the sales front, you're properly qualifying the right customer and closing the right customer and not overselling. And then once you close the customer, they have to make sure you're serving servicing them in a way where they see the value and are compelled to stay and continue with you, which means it's a focus on its customer centricity, B2B companies. A lot of times it's like a one hit, one like, you know, car sales, right? Same thing, B2C, but typical B2B companies or B2C companies aren't focused on it's not SaaS models, a monthly plan. You pay a lump sum, and you get it, yeah, if you take an approach of, well, I may lose if this customer, if I lose this customer, it can happen. Anytime you sound you'll sound less salesy. So, I have, like, a method I call unselling, where for lead, if you talk to a lead, let's call it an inbound lead. You would tell the inbound lead like, hey, Mark, like, I don't know that we'd be a fit. It'd be too soon for me to say that. If we're not, I'll make a recommendation. Like, that's a level of unselling where you're creating a healthy level of, like, friction and resistance between you and the prospect. Another one would be like if a prospect explains to you their current process and they're looking to change, but they're explaining to you the current process and it doesn't sound that bad. Tell them it doesn't sound that bad. Why change? Then that is called unselling. You're dissuading them from moving forward, and if, if they really, truly have a problem, they will convince you of as to why status quo is no longer an option. That's more of a SaaS approach, in my opinion, because again, that model of you can churn the customer anytime, I think!

Mark Shriner [06:53]

Yeah, no, I agree, with SaaS you think about that lifetime value of customer, with the LTV, versus this more transactional, traditional approach, I would push back on you, though, and say that I think that regardless of what you're selling, the unselling approach can should be used. I mean, I Why try to show somebody why? Try to sell somebody something that they absolutely don't have a need for, and then just destroy your credibility and trust with them in the in the process, right? Why not just take a step back, say, hey, you know what? Like you said, it's probably not a really good fit. Let me go talk with the team, see if we can come up back with something that's more appropriate. It would be, okay? And people like, Yeah, sure. But, but, you know, just because it's the right way to go, like you said, a lot of traditional companies, they're out there like, Hey, close, close, close, right? So let me ask you, so you got the three P's, you got process played by playbooks and people, let's go through because with the process, I you noted, like the one of the first things was hiring and onboarding, and I believe in sales and basically all positions. But if you really want to set yourself up for success, hire the right people. But it's the most challenging thing to do. I mean, I've been hiring people for 20 something years, and I still get it wrong. Is often, or probably more often, than I get it right. So how do you, how do you get it right? How do you hire the right people? Get the right people on the bus.

Mor Assouline [08:26]

I believe in what Jason Lumpkin says, if you're let's say you're a VP of sales, and you're joining a company you like, if you were a really good sales leader in the past, then maybe there are sales people that worked under you that would follow you wherever you go. One argument that I have that I tell like, I don't know if he pays attention. Jason Lemkin, but it's like, if I did a very good job as a VP of sales and I hired the right salespeople, they should be crushing it at their current company, and they they're not compelled to leave the current company.

Mark Shriner [08:59]

That's the conundrum, right? Because if you're a really successful, hard-hitting salesperson, why would you leave? I mean, you know, so especially if you're hiring, if you're hiring for kind of mid-levels on down, it's tough to, you know, you're not going to persuade anybody who's already at that level. So, but please continue.

Mor Assouline [09:17]

Yeah, so I think, but there's, but there's truth in recruiting. So, recruiting people that you've worked with in the past, so I'd say, like that is from first-hand experience, then in network. So instead of if you're recruiting, instead of just going straight, like LinkedIn job ads or whatever, post, look at your network. So first look at your inner network of like, who you've worked with that they worked with you, then, once removed, look at your colleagues and ask them if they know of anyone. So, for example, I have a friend. He's a CEO of a company. I trust him. If I'm going to start a company, I will ask him for advice on who he knows that he put me in touch with that would be potentially talent and whoever he recommends. Sends me, I will trust Him that that's the right, you know, those are good candidates. And then the third layer would be, like recruiting. So, what a lot of companies do is they post, like a job ad, and then they sort of like, wait, you can do that. I would say that's like the fourth, like, really outskirts, like an outskirt type of approach. So, you have one inner two inter circle, and then third is recruiting yourself. And then fourth is set it and forget it. And so, the third is recruit like, go to companies that maybe are similar industries. So, if you sell, I don't know, property management software, and you want to hire salespeople, you could go to property management companies and hire, yeah, people there. You can train them on the sales stuff or, you know, but it's really important that you understand that they understand the buyer center more than anyone else. And if they do, then it's really good. But, um, yeah, so it's who do you know that you've worked with that you feel confident learn next. Who do you know that they may know of somebody next? Go recruit next post on LinkedIn, or whatever you want to post, and then hope that you get the right candidate.

Mark Shriner [11:12]

So, you've got some candidates in front of you, you know, and salespeople, they tend to interview fairly well because they're salespeople. How do you kind of filter, or what's your process to, you know, go through that interview process?  

Mor Assouline [11:27]

Yeah, I have, it's probably unpopular and, but I like to trick, like you know, create little tricks. So, I may tell a rep, yeah, we're going to meet on Zoom next week, whatever it is, 2pm. But I never send them the Zoom link. And I want to know, are they going to show up last minute? Like, they can't show up. So, are they going to what are they going to do? Right? Do they email me a week in advance, a few days in advance, the same day in advance, they call me? Do they not show up? Like, what happens? How do they treat that? I look for preparation. So that's an example of something that I would do to really test something out. I will ask reps to demo or do discovery of whatever they're currently selling. I think, if they can't sell me on what they're currently selling. I'm not convinced. I'm not really interested in; I wouldn't hire them. I always ask this question, like, Would I buy from them? If the answer is no, it doesn't matter what the data says. Like, in terms of, like, my scorecard, I probably won't hire them. Do they prepare? Do they send an email before the interview, saying I'm looking forward to it. Here's what I'd recommend. These are just like some examples. That's like, more tactical stuff that I'm looking for.

Mark Shriner [12:48]

No, I use the second one there where I say, okay, so take me through a cold call of what you're currently selling. Or let's do an elevator pitch, or let's go through the meeting, you know, and just in role play it out, and it puts people on the spot. But if they've been doing it for a few years, they should have it all just, you know, it's it should be kind of automatized. And so that one has been effective for me, when you hire somebody, though the onboarding is critical in terms of understanding the company, the product, that market, the company, and then also demonstrating that the company is going to support them and is interested in their success. And also, you know, what's the word, negotiating expectations in terms of their performance? That's, there's, there's that whole onboarding thing. How do you do that in an effective manner?  

Mor Assouline [13:43]

What are some best practices to set expectations for onboarding?

Mark Shriner [13:46]

Both, in terms of like, how do you get people up to speed? You know, what are the key things you focus on, and then also in terms of making sure that you're aligned in terms of what their performance targets are.

Mor Assouline [13:56]

I like to create a document called how to best work with me, and that document is split in half. The top layer says what I expect from you, and then the bottom layer of that. The bottom half of that document says what you can expect from me, and I just make a list of bullet points of what I expect from you as a seller, very clear expectations. And then again, what you can expect from me as a sales leader. And then I have them create one for me as well, and they create one, and I create one, we exchange, and we sign off on the bottom. So that's one way we just make sure we're fully aligned.

Mark Shriner [14:29]

Give me some examples of things that you would expect from a B2B SaaS salesperson, and things that they might expect from you.  

Mor Assouline [14:37]

So, something I expect from seller. Before you come to me with a question of like a how to question, make sure you've exhausted all of your options. When you come to me with a problem, always come to me with a solution like that's an example of something, of an expectation, something they can expect from me. I will. Always like, I expect you to give me feedback as to what I can improve as a manager like that. That is something there. What can you expect from me. I will give you, like, direct advice. I won't like to beat around the bush, what I expect, what you can expect from me. I don't know if it can be. I will be very transparent about what we decide internally for the sales organization.

Mark Shriner [15:27]

Some examples, yeah, it all makes sense. What? What about activity, or and, or revenue targets? And let's, let's keep, let's stay on that like B2B, SaaS company, you know, and you mentioned that a lot of your customers are the people. Companies you work with, are SMBs. So, in the context of that, how do you manage or establish revenue activity targets?

Mor Assouline [15:49]

So, it's on the SMB side. It's usually MRR. I wouldn't put the expectation of like on that document, the expectation of quota necessarily, that's on more of their agreement, their job offer, which would include, like, what is their MRR targets? I care I really care less about activity. I care more about the outcome. I mean, it matters, but I'm not tracking activity like I am tracking like, if they can, they'll see the Mr. Target for an SMB is, like, eight to 10k MRR per rep per month, and they hit it, but they close, you know, they only do, like, a couple of demos a day versus five demos a day. I don't care as much. I'm only thinking about, like, all right, great. Like, this is, this is the output. Imagine how much more you can make if you close more. So, like, I'll look it from that direction, but I won't be upset if they don't. I don't like a rep that is complacent. So, like, Yeah, this is all I want to hit. I had a rep one time like that. I'm making my minimum quota, and I'm happy, and I'm making my minimum MRR and, like, technically he was, but I really want to keep, like, a beat player on the team, like he's not, he's really never going to crush it for us. And I didn't want to, but it's Yeah, so I care really less about activity. It's more about the activity that would care is, like, more micro in the deal. Did you set up next, compelling, next steps? Did you do that? Did you ask the right discovery, like that is the level of activity I'm looking for, not how many calls and dials did you make?

Mark Shriner [17:15]

It makes, makes sense. What about getting people up to speed, really quick, in terms of, you know, the company, product and market information. Do you have a process for that?

Mor Assouline [17:27]

Yeah, so I think every new seller should spend some time with customer support, shadowing and even answering support tickets. That's a really great way to learn the product, because what happens support customers get onboarded. They now use the product. They now have real world questions. They don't know how to do this, or something happen. Have the salesperson figure out, I just got off a call with a salesperson, like she just joined HubSpot. I'm like, spend time in like, support. Like, they may not let you answer the support tickets, but like, go look through the questions and then see if you can find the answers for them by trying to figure it out on your own, which means go to the Help Center, play around it, get lost. Like, you know, really create, like, go exercise your brain a little bit, work your muscles, and then you'll learn the product. Really, it'll take time to learn the product, like, it'll take time for you to find the answer, but it'll stick. You'll really learn the product. So that I'd recommend sellers answer support tickets. I would highly recommend sellers study the buyer persona and the buying scenarios. So, the buying person is like, who's typically coming through the door? The buying scenario is, why are they typically coming through the door? Are they coming from a competitor? Where are they coming from? No solution. Are they coming from paper and pen? And what's the reason? Why doesn't that work? I think that's if you I know a seller. She works at a property management software company. She's the top performer at, like, 20 reps. Top just absolutely crushes. It hits over 170, 200% code. I don't mean I was crazy. Was crazy. She doesn't come from, sat sales. She should be a property manager for 10 years.

Mark Shriner [19:08]

Yeah, she buys, she can speak their language and she, yeah, gets it? No, that's, that's, that's some, some, some great, great advice. Yeah, it's funny because you mentioned that about shadowing support team, one of the most knowledgeable people that I've had a chance to work with over the last few years, we got involved with helping a company optimize their RFP responses, and we brought her in as an RFP Manager. They didn't have any kind of centralized role as that role she, you know, with RFP, you have the finance information, the product information, security information, you know, HR information. And so, after about five RFP and she's collecting all this information and putting it together. And then, you know. Creating the finalized response. She knew more about, like, the overall company than probably anybody else in the company, right? So, like, I, you know, one of her career options would be just to go right into sales, because she knows so much about the company, right? So, so similar, similar kind of situation. Let's go on to the prospecting and discovery prospecting, I would say, back when I was on the frontline sales, for me, I think it was easier, because I could pick up the call, pick up the phone and call people. Maybe the data wasn't as readily available with, you know, but just reaching out to people, you can either get them on the phone and then later with faxes and then emails, but everything's just, everybody's inundated with messages through all these channels. So, let's talk about how and where you know, and what tools you use for prospecting, but then also, when you do that initial outreach, what, what's effective?

Mor Assouline [21:00]

Yeah, so I like, there's two approaches to prospecting. Is one, it's like, go direct for the jugular, which is like, just go direct and ask, like, pitch whatever. Or you do this, what I call like, build familiarity. So, I think most people, or most companies, what they do is they cold prospect in order to build familiarity, I like to flip it on its head and build familiarity first so that I can call prospect. So what does that mean if I were to, let's say, send you a cold email after this, in a month time, I send you a cold email, pitching something that I knew you would probably need, and I offer you're more likely to respond to that because you know me, sort of right. Like, yeah, you're familiar with each other.  

Mark Shriner [21:47]

You wouldn't be the first podcast guest that has pitched me on services, and one of them was, was successful.  

Mor Assouline [21:56]

So, yeah, so, so what I do tactically is, assuming that my buyer, or buyers live on LinkedIn. They hang out on LinkedIn, they check LinkedIn, and they post on LinkedIn. I'm going to make a list of, let's just say, certain prospects that are that maybe create a lead list and Sales Navigator, and then I'm going to engage in their content, daily, weekly basis, meaningful comments, really good engagement. View their profile, like their posts, etc., all that. And what I'm looking for is, I'm looking for them to engage back with me, which means they viewed back my profile, they commented on my comment, they liked my comment, whatever it may be, maybe they even comment on my post. That's even better. I want to build familiarity, and I'll do that maybe for a few weeks, maybe a month. And then I'll cold email them, and I'll say something like, Hey, Mark, it's more from LinkedIn. We, you know, loosely engaged on LinkedIn about your different posts. Really awesome. And then I'm going to go transition into whatever good cold email that I want to write out. I'm more likely to get a response because there's familiarity. That is my approach to prospecting. Again. It's not the only approach. Like, in some instances, like, I may not have anything for the prospect on LinkedIn. In that case, I have to cold email them, or whatever it is. What I would do is I would leverage my network first. So maybe if I want to go after you, I noticed that Scott Leese's mutual connection. I know Scott Leese. I'll ask Scott, like, hey, Scott, do you know Mark? Or is that just like a loose collection connection? If he says, oh, I know him. Why? I'll say, oh, I'm looking to see if he'd be interested in XYZ. Would you be able to make an introduction? And I'll leverage that before I go cold. If that doesn't work, then I'll go cold call. I'll just send you a cold email or whatever.  

Mark Shriner [23:38]

I glad you said that, because when you at the first part of it, I, you know, I agree with everything you say in terms of, it's great to build up some familiarity before you pitch somebody. But I'm thinking in the situation of where you hire a new SDR or BDM and they're like, hey, I'm not going to, you know, for the first two months, I'm just going to build from familiarity with my targets. And you're like, No, I can't. We can't have two or three months go by before you're actually booking demos and things like that. But in the meantime, while you're doing that in parallel, you can reach out to your network, or your networks, network and you and then the third tier is, is you can just do some cold outreach, man, because once in a while, this stuff still pays off.  

Mor Assouline [24:19]

So, for an SDR, I would only do that build familiarity approach for large accounts, like big opportunities, I don't think SDR, I don't know. I've never been in SDR, so I don't want to speak as an SDR, but I don't know that a new SDR is working on, trying to land a huge opportunity. I think an account executive is maybe nurturing that more than anything. So, if you're a full sales cycle rep, and you're trying to land a big account, which is what I did as an when I was an SMB, A, E. You know, deal sizes are small, but you can lend a really like, I remember I closed a public company, but the deal small. The deal size was small. It was a small deal, but once you get that logo, then you can say, oh, I have XYZ Company. Me in our, you know, with our client. But I remember another one was like a popular company. I found them on LinkedIn. I started engaging with them on LinkedIn, build familiarity, and then before you even pitch, they actually just reach out to us, because they naturally looked at my profile. They saw they went to the website, they submitted information, they came through for an SDR, I would just say, like regular cold outreach, but no mixture of phone, email, network and LinkedIn and there should always be social proof in the cold email. You should always try to find; I think Jen Allen talks about this.  

Mark Shriner [25:34]

Can you say when you say social proof in a cold email, explain that?

Mor Assouline [25:40]

Yeah, so social proof is like, kind of like testimonials, but not testimonials. So, if let's just say I want to sell to, I don't know, Walmart, I'm going to pitch somebody at Walmart, and let's say Amazon is a client of mine and Costco is a client of mine. When I send an email to Walmart, I'll make sure to mention Costco and Amazon are clients of mine, and I help them with XYZ. That's social proof, and it has like the best social proof is companies that are very similar to them. So, if I'm emailing property I don't know legal tech company, I'm going to use other legal tech companies that I've helped as social proof.

Mark Shriner [26:19]

Yeah, let me ask you this, because I do something similar, or I coach something similar. Oftentimes, though, instead of mentioning specific companies, because that can be sometimes a bit sensitive, because your prospective customer, they're like, okay, if we sign, are they going to be out shopping our name around too? Sometimes I would say, hey, you know, we're working with companies, some of the largest legal tech companies in the industry, helping them to do A, B and C. Would love to set up a conversation with you to see if we can, you know, deliver the same results for you, some something along those lines. So, what's the pros and cons of actually being mentioning the company in an email, or maybe, maybe holding it until you're on a call? I mean, I don't know, name proper, right?  

Mor Assouline [27:01]

Yeah, there's, there is a, there's always a trade off in life. So, the tradeoff of mentioning it could be like, oh, are they going to shop my name around, but it, I think I prefer to roll that dice, honestly, okay? Because I just prefer to roll the dice that way. And I look at like, cold emails that are being sent to me, and like, oh, we've helped other coaches. Other coaches, blah, blah, blah, like, what other coaches like?  

Mark Shriner [27:25]

You know, fair enough, because these days we get so many messages, and the vagueness sometimes is like, yeah, right, okay, so there's no credibility there. Yeah, it makes sense.

Mor Assouline [27:33]

And it doesn't have to be, it could be an adjacent legal tech company, right? So, it doesn't have to be a direct competitor, but an adjacent one.  

Mark Shriner [27:41]

Yeah, I noticed under process, the last one in process I want to ask you about is CRM audits. I don't know what that is. I can probably figure out, I think, what it means. But you tell me, what is a CRM audit, and why is it important?

Mor Assouline [27:55]

Yeah, so CRM audit is like, are all the right? Are all the proper fields in the CRM. So, you're using HubSpot, you're closing a deal like what fields are being filled out. So, for example, tactically speaking, I do the reason why this part is important is you want to be able to run reports, and then it helps you, like doing outbound also. So, for example, if you want to see who's your top customer and what industry and what persona and what buying scenario you need to have data. The data comes from CRM, so making sure that, like, certain fields are created and then filled out. That would be an example of an audit of a CRM or so you have medic, I don't know, and then you want to make sure that your reps are filling out the medic fields in CRM, in Salesforce, like that. You want to audit that, something that I did as a VP of sales, a lot like audit, CRMs, audit like then, are they taking quality notes? Are they setting up the right did they drop the are the fields correct for the next steps? Did they put it in the right stage? A lot of deals are in the wrong stage when they should they're finalizing a negotiation when they really should be in, like, discovery. So, it's like auditing these stages in the pipeline with the reps.  

Mark Shriner [29:07]

Let's go to playbooks. That's the second P and I just, I just want to get your take on cold email sequences. Like, give me a couple tips or best practices that you use for cold email sequences.

Mor Assouline [29:19]

The first line has to be observation. So, it could be maybe you've seen something on someone's LinkedIn post, or you read an article, or you heard a podcast of the prospect talking and mentioning something. So that you insert observation. So Hey, Mark, really loved your podcast on XYZ, especially when you said ABC, whatever it is. So that's like an observation. Or hey Mark, notice you just partnered up with XYZ company to create a new line of inventory on whatever like. That's an observation. Um. I really like Jen Allen's approach of this, like, like, unsure tonality in an email and using an assumption. So, she uses the words, like, not sure if you're seeing this. That's like a line that she uses. So, like, not sure. A few come a few. You know, VPs of sales have told me that while they're ramping up new reps, they're not able to stick to the material or the training or the skills, as once they're fully ramped up. Not sure if you're seeing this right, like it's a very unsure tone, but we helped XYZ company ramp up the reps and make sure that they were consistently surpassing their quota 12 months in a row, open till anymore, right? It's like, that would be an example. So, there's an unsure tone there. There's an observation. I'm calling out a particular problem that I'm seeing. The way I think about a cold email is you actually don't know if the prospect is having a problem. You're going fishing, right? So, I think most bad cold emails are asking for the prospect's time. When you do that, you're assuming that the prospect has an issue. I don't know if they have an issue, so I'm actually going to treat the email as fact finder. Hey, Mark, here's an issue that I'm seeing. Not sure if you're seeing the same, but we helped XYZ. Is this something that you're seeing on your end? Is this an issue that you're having? I want to, like, confirm that. Once I can confirm that, great, if they respond back, like, yeah, we are having this issue. Oh, great. Like, would you be open to having a conversation about it? I think most emails are going or they're trying to land appointment. You shouldn't I think most cold emails shouldn't validate the assumption.

Mark Shriner [31:32]

I definitely like that. Another thing that you mentioned under playbooks is talk tracks in call recording software. That's another expression, or, I guess, scenario, that I'm not really that familiar with. So, can you explain that?

Mor Assouline [31:52]

Yeah! So, for example, one of my client again, Door Loop, they raised 100 technically, 120 million between A and B round, they use call recording software, like Gong, Avoma, etc., And so what I do is I will listen to the reps' calls. So, like, I train the reps, I coach the reps, and I go back here. Like, when we have one on ones, I listen to their calls. Like, wow. You the skill that we worked on, on discovery or setting up next steps or handling objection. You did a very good job there. I'm going to now build a talk track library. So, think about like, a digital library, and they're going to have folders. Each folder is going to be a different topic or skill, so objections, next steps, closing whatever it is, and then whenever I hear a talk track from the call that they did a good job, I'll take a snippet of that and then dump it into that folder, and I'll just keep doing that. So now they have a library of what good sounds like.  

Mark Shriner [32:44]

Yeah, that's awesome. I love that. I mean, it's kind of backed we used to do, like, success stories or, you know, so, you know, every month, or whatever the timing was, we get the salespeople together across the region, in a country, whatever, and, and, and share success stories from the initial the prospecting, the initial contact, the meetings. What were the key things? Because I think we've learned through stories, right? And it's similar, like you learn from listening to other people, and then you can kind of model that behavior. So very effective. Let me, let me, kind of move on to the last one area is people, and you know, that's you mentioned that you have your Demo to Close University, or you have a training University. So, is that all is it? Is it live through or their online courses, and that followed up by the, you know, live sessions, followed up by one on ones or small groups or explain that.  

Mor Assouline [33:43]

Yeah, it depends. So, there's, there is a community aspect to it. So, there's a community, which is on Slack, which most people have slack. That's why it's on Slack. There is self-paced training, so different modules on different topics, discovery, demo, follow ups, etc. And then there is live coaching, and that's group coaching with me and other account executives for some companies, if, like, they have, if I'm rolling this out to a B2B Company, then all incorporate additional weekly trainings, or one on ones with the reps for like, door loop, for example, they have a mixture of relatively pretty large company and growing. They have a mixture of one on ones, with the reps, group coaching, and then like weekly or monthly trainings that I do, like workshops.

Mark Shriner [34:28]

Awesome, awesome. Well, hey, let's, let me ask you, what do you think are going to be the biggest changes for salespeople in the next few years? I mean, a lot of people talk about AI. We also can talk about, you know, that all the traditional methods of outreach are inundated with so many different people prospecting and trying to sell different things. But you know what's going to change in if I want to be a successful salesperson, you know, two or three years from now, what skills or technologies or tools or approaches should I adopt?  

Mor Assouline [35:00]

Yeah, I would definitely learn whatever AI tools that would complement a seller. So maybe there are eight tools for research depending on the salesperson. Maybe like researching an account. But I wouldn't view AI as a threat. I use it more as a really cheap assistant. So, I would do folks like take your time to study that I would start building a voice in a brand. I think, okay, you know my you know my parents, my uncle, they're all like, in their 70s and like 60s and 80s and whatever it is. And my father in laws like 50 something, and he was very successful businessman, or he is a successful businessman, but he told me he's, like, it's way more competitive today than how it used to be. Used to be, like, it would be harder to break into a business because you don't have the right information. Like, right now, anyone can start an online business and go to China. Back then, it was harder, but if you knew how to do that, it wasn't as competitive as it was today. Everyone has the same information, so how do you stand out if everyone has the same tools, the same tricks, the same skills, the only thing, and this is the reason why I pivoted. I tried selling on Amazon a little bit. I'm competing against product. The only thing that no one can replicate is, in my opinion, is brand, because brand is very unique, right? Like you can't have another company that's going to try to be Coca Cola. It won't. It'll be another company that maybe competes with Coca Cola, but it won't be another Coca Cola. That's why brand is so important. So, I would recommend sellers post content, create content. YouTube is known for something, and when you work, it's just going to be much harder when your name is familiar and you email somebody, oh yeah, I know who you are. I remember, I cold emailed, I'll use Jen Allen again. She was, at the time, the host of the Challenger podcast. We engaged on LinkedIn for a while, and then I decided, like, hey, I'm going to pitch her to do, like a workshop, or like to be a guest on her podcast. And I emailed her, he's like, Yeah, of course, I know you. I follow your stuff all the time. Easy, that's awesome, right? So, like, got to build, you got to build a brand, great content wherever. And if you have a B2C listener here or B2B, there are people on LinkedIn that are health and wellness coaches. This guy named Dan go absolutely crushes it on LinkedIn. He finds an angle to post health and wellness stuff that's related to professional work. But build a brand, create content, create podcast. If I were an AE, and I really like I was working for, like, a cybersecurity software company, and I really love that company, I was committed, I would create a podcast on cybersecurity and interview cyber security like CIOs, like, don't pitch anything, just create a podcast for it, and now you are known.  

Mark Shriner [37:47]

It's funny you say that. In 2018, I started working as the sales development lead for a cyber security company and never sold cyber security services before. I was fascinated by it. So, I just, you know, I crammed as much information as I could from online, but then I started a podcast called Secure talk and just started interviewing, you know, leaders in the industry. And in the beginning was hard, because people like, how many episodes you've done, are like, what three? And they're like, yeah, get somebody else. But after we got up to like, 30, 40, episodes, people were coming to me saying, hey, can we be on the show? And at the end, literally, I was getting two or three people a week that wanted to be on the show, and I had to, I could only do one. And then it got so busy that with what I'm doing now I end up selling that podcast, so in it stay, yeah, and the company that bought it is still, you know, running it, and has actually taken it to another level. But to your point one, it helped me develop a personal brand. But probably, or equally as important is, I got to learn so much because, you know, you sit down with somebody and you have a one-hour conversation about and, by the way, cybersecurity, there are so many different aspects. It's a mile wide and then a mile deep in so many different areas. So that was a great experience.  

Mor Assouline [39:05]

I mean, don't even turn into leads, let's just say, Yeah, well, you have listeners. Those listeners are other cyber security so imagine now you start cold emailing other cyber security folks. There is a chance that they've listened to your podcast. Yeah, right. Like, so absolutely, that's what I recommend for reps and then build a network, like networking like that was, I'm 36 so my, I think one of my biggest regrets was when I was in my early 20s. I grew up in Miami, Miami wasn't where it was today when I was 20, you know, in my 20s, I played it safe. Like I could have gone to New York and crashed my friend's couch and got on the job there and shake hands. I didn't do that. Played it safe. If I'm a young seller coming out from college, whatever it is, like, I just spoke to a cell yesterday, lives in West Palm Beach. I'm like, West Palm Beach? He's like, Yeah, I have a lot of friends at Miami beach. I'm. Like, you should go and, like, move to Wynwood Brickell, and they have, there's a lot more of a tech scene there than there is in West Palm Beach and shake hands and network. I think the biggest hack is networking. Your network. It really is. I think what's old is new again. So networking, like a Rolodex, like, that's all coming back, because it's getting more competitive.

Mark Shriner [40:19]

Yeah, and people, it's like this expression, I've heard multiple forms of it, but in the age of plenty, trust and attention are the new scarce items, right? Because we're just inundated with everything. And how do you build trust and get attention? I mean, the best way in the world is just to meet somebody in person and be part of their network, get an introduction and so on. So, yeah, totally agree with you.

Mor Assouline [40:45]

I'm reading a book, or I read a book called Zag, or something like that, by Marty Neumeyer. He was like a brand genius, and he helped Apple. He talks about a way, pretty much what you said. He says, we're in a time where we're information rich, but time poor.  

Mark Shriner [41:00]

So, yeah, exactly. It's a great way! Let me ask you just a couple more questions. Uh, well, one, you know, you talked about building a personal brand. I think, you also have a podcast, right?  

Mor Assouline [41:10]

I do. I just haven't. I haven't uploaded an episode in a while. I need to give it more love

Mark Shriner [41:15]

Hey if you need a guest, man, I'm right here. No, it takes time.

Mor Assouline [41:21]

I really nurture it.

Mark Shriner [41:22]

It takes effort and but the cool thing with podcast from where I sit, is there, once you do the podcast, when you've developed a bit of a relationship with the person who's sitting opposite of you, you learn something, you create the audio, the video content, but then you can repurpose that content in terms of transcripts, shorts, blog posts, everything like that, which gives you a little bit of help with some of the SEO and some other things, right, and just developing that brand. What do you? Let me ask you, because you know, a lot of the things that we talked about were very much on the skill set side and the activity side, the tool side, a big part of sales for me is also the mental side, which, you know, I guess you could call it, motivation. I think it's probably deeper than that. You know, being able to face rejection over and over and over again, you know. But you know, do you do any coaching, or have you seen anything that you know has helped you in terms of that, that mental side, whether it's motivation or otherwise.

Mor Assouline [42:28]

Yeah. I mean, as an entrepreneur or solopreneur or whatever, it's even heavier than you know you're because you're, you know, you rely on your you're literally 100% commission based, yeah, yeah. It's, I think putting your head more in, like putting doing more work actually does the opposite of, if you're in a rut, doing more work doesn't help you with that rut unless it does. Sometimes. I don't know who said it. It was Jeff Bezos. I think it was like an old video. He says stress is an indicator that I that you like, you're doing something wrong, or you're not doing something enough, or something like that. I don't know exactly what it was, and I think about the times that I'm stressed, like, I almost feel like, yeah, it's because I know I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. So, if I feel that, so if I'm a seller, and I feel stressed, not like I've done everything, but I don't know why it's not working, it's like I just like, I almost feel like a victim when you get into that mentality. Chances are you're not doing something you know you should be doing. I do believe in getting the hell out of the house or the office and just like getting out and recharging when you think that your entire world and universe exists, like here laptop and that's where life can get really depressing, because when it doesn't go your way, your universe doesn't go your way, that's your life. And so, when your car, your identity is very much tied to your career, and it doesn't go your way. Oh, you're totally screwed. So, you got to realize that you got to build an identity outside of work, hobby, passion, friends, I find I meet like, I think it was this, this week I work from home. I just got an office, a new office on Monday but for this purpose, but, I work from home. And when I have a tough day at work, I have a tough day at home, naturally, because my home and my workspace is integrated. So, I was like, I need to get a place where I separate the two. So, if I have a bad day at work, I can come home, and home is my place, yeah, and, and I and I'm like, when you work as a solo printer, you're by yourself. You're not you don't have a team, so it gets very lonely. You get into your head. And this week, I texted my brother-in-law. I'm like, hey, you guys wanted like, let's hang out. We did a barbecue at his house, got some whiskey, beer, whatever it was, and it was just very chill. And it's exactly what I needed, and it just recharged me. Another thing I'd really recommend that I do is I journal. I have a little journal, and on the journal, I write a chapter called not to worry. And the way I think about it is like a time, like a time capsule, or time what do they call it? Time Capsule, to put it in you open it up in a few years? Yeah, I think I treat it like that. So, I write in the journal whenever something ended up working itself out. When I started my business, I didn't have any clients. I was freaking out. I ended up lining up a client. When that happens, I go into the journal and I write down on a bullet point what I was worried about and how it worked out. And, I keep doing that throughout the year, then I sort of like put it back in my bag. In the future, when I feel stressed and I freak out, I open up my time capsule. I'll take out the journal. I go to that chapter not to worry, and I look at all the stuff that worked out. Memento. It's an old movie.

Mark Shriner [45:36]

Man, dude, but many times. Dude, I love that movie.

Mor Assouline [45:39]

Feel like writes a message to his future self to remind himself.

Mark Shriner [45:42]

What tattoos, it messages too.  

Mor Assouline [45:46]

Yeah, that's how I think about it, like I need to write a message to my future self.

Mark Shriner [45:50]

It's awesome. Tim Ferriss, he does something. He calls it the jar of awesome. And because we tend to, we a lot of people tend to focus on the negatives and what's not going right, and we forget about all the things that are going well. And I think he said that a girlfriend of his, you know, came up with this idea that, you know what? Every time something really good happens, write it down, put it in the jar. And then when you know, six months from now, when you're having a really tough day, pull out that jar and see all the good stuff that's happened, right? And because, you know, we tend to, like, you know, there's a huge mountain, it's this problem. And then if you pull out the jar of awesome, and you see all this other, you know, and it's similar to you, you you're not pulling out awesome things. You're pulling out, you know, examples of problems that you thought were huge and then solved them. I love that, man, that's awesome.  

Mor Assouline [46:38]

Yeah, there's a few others like, I visualizations like I affirmations and visualizations like every I started doing this recently. Every morning, I sit down 10 minutes, I put like, binary beats, whatever it is, and I imagine, like, whatever that number is, per month for me, financially, what that would make me feel do like, how would I behave? I close my eyes, and I just envision myself in that future state. And then I did this yesterday, and was and I was like, Yeah, I want to make, you know, whatever it was, 100 whatever, a few million dollars a year. And I'm like, well, would I be? How would I behave? And I realized a lot of it, it's not, I never think about the car. I never think about the house. It's always like the it's the state of mind that I'm in when I make that kind of money, not the items that I have. And so yesterday, the whole day, I was in that state of mind of, oh, I made it like, and I felt confident, I felt relaxed, I felt abundant. That's something that I work on as well. I think there's a guy named Sean Perry, first last name. He has a podcast called My first million he talks about gratitude, how people talk about, you should have gratitude. It's harder to think about, it's hard to have gratitude in the macro. It's much easier to do have gratitude in the micro. So, for example, macro is, I'm grateful that I'm alive today and, you know, I'm breathing. That's, that's, that's macro. We it's, it's happened so often that it no longer becomes special. But if you think about the micro, so for example, I don't know you're with groceries, you're going to the elevator, and someone held the door for you. In that moment, be grateful for that moment. Think about these micro moments.

Mark Shriner [48:12]

Recognize it. Be Yeah, be mindful of it.

Mor Assouline [48:15]

Really. I done it. I do it. It makes a difference. It really makes a difference.

Mark Shriner [48:22]

That's awesome, man. Yeah, you're right. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in our own head that we just fail to smell the roses and see all the beautiful things that are happening around us, right? So just recognize that that's great. If people want to get in touch with you, you know, have questions for you. What's the best way to do that?  

Mor Assouline [48:38]

Yeah, they can go to my LinkedIn, or they can go to DemotoClose.com my website, and then you can book a call with me, or you go on LinkedIn and DM me, or connect with me. That's the best way.  

Mark Shriner [48:48]  

Awesome. Well, hey, Mor, I really appreciate you coming on The Grow Fast Podcast. You shared a lot of really great information and so, thank you! Thank you, a lot.

Mor Assouline [48:57]  

Appreciate it. Thank you.  

Mark Shriner [48:58]  

Cheers!

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